Student fights Anderson Co. Confederate flag ban
Here's the shirt:
Image from Dixie Outfitters
With all the rotten news out there, here's something to shed a little ray of hope. A young Southerner in Knoxville endured multiple suspensions for wearing a Southern pride shirt to school. The case goes back for years (click here for an early report), but he's still fighting. His comments this week display the Southern fighting spirit that many thought had been brainwashed out of the present generation:
Outside court Thursday, Tommy Defoe, a former student, said, "They're trying to say the Confederate battle flag is offensive to others and it's not. They can't prove that it is, you know. I mean, it's my heritage. It makes me mad that they would say that about it."
Mr. Defoe, you deserve a salute from Southerners everywhere. Deo Vindice!
posted by Michael Tuggle @ Friday, August 15, 2008
16 Comments
16 Comments:
The shirt should say...
"If you don't think this flag flew over armies fighting to defend slavery, You need a history lesson"
Billy
Now, Billy.
Do you really think that for the first time in history, a government sacrificed its men and money to go do a good deed for others?
Or maybe -- just maybe -- it was really about control of trade and taxes and territory -- you know, like all the other wars in history.
Funny thing Billy Yank,
Which flag was it that flew over the slave ships? Let me give you a hint. It wasn't the Southern Cross.
Furthermore it is a myth that you are proposing, not actual history.
Remember, History is what actually happened, not what the conquerors said happened.
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Slavery was an indefensible economic base that allowed evil investors to earn big money.
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I don't imagine but a very few and necessarily ignorant people believe it could be considered an acceptable way of life.
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But, there were millions of other reasons why the Southrons defended the South--as many reasons as there were Southerners.
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I knew an ignorant Johnny who thought he was superior to blacks. But, he was only one.
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And, I've seen some repulsive images on shirts and no one is raising hell about them.
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Good for Tommy Defoe.
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Sure it was all about the tariff...
“Louisiana looks to the formation of a Southern confederacy to preserve the blessings of African slavery, and of the free institutions of the founders of the Federal Union, bequeathed to their posterity. “
Now maybe I have a simple mind, but there seems to be a very strong statement here in terms of slavery and not the vaulted tariff people like Tom Dilorenzo and Clyde Wilson like to toss out as the cause.
Here are some more quotes…
“The people of Louisiana would consider it a most fatal blow to African slavery, if Texas either did not secede or having seceded should not join her destinies to theirs in a Southern Confederacy”
“As a separate republic, Louisiana remembers too well the whisperings of European diplomacy for the abolition of slavery in the times ofm the speech…
“Louisiana supplies to Texas a market for her surplus wheat, grain and stock; both States have large areas of fertile, uncultivated lands, peculiarly adapted to slave labor; and they are both so deeply interested
Source: Address of George Williamson, Commissioner from Louisiana to the Texas Secession Convention
Ah well a couple of people said it was about slavery. I guess that settles it. Funny all those other people from that time who said it wasn't about slavery, Northerners and Europeans included, don't count. You know people like Abe Lincoln, Lysander Spooner, Charles Dickens, etc etc.
If the North were fighting to end slavery why would so many Northern lives and all that treasure be spent, merely to walk away and leave the freeman to the guile of Southerners.
"Reconstruction" ended because the Southern economy was then fully harnessed to enrich Northern interests. It was fought for the same reason pretty much every war is fought, money.
Any body that thinks differently should not be allowed out of the house. But the politicians can always count on the gullible. Billy Yank they can see you coming a mile away.
The US is in Iraq after all to bring the blessings of democracy to those poor people.
Mike, good point. The same Army that "liberated" the slaves went on to "liberate" the plains Indian. I know Sherman and Sheridan were very keen on Indian welfare.
You do understand Geo. Williamson was sent from the seceded state of Louisiana to Texas to explain to them why Louisiana and the other states had seceded. I would tend to believe a secession commissioner on the cause of secession over some distant observer in London.
As for Abe Lincoln saying it was not about slavery is correct. The North did not go to war over slavery...it was the south that did.
Billy Yank you really are gullible. Your quote addresses the possible and perhaps partial motives of George Williamson. It doesn't necessarily address all his motives. I'm sure he had a number of motives and arguments for secession. Should you not be able to figure it out a good attorney or advocate makes every argument he can. He wishes to appeal to every segment of potential support no matter how small.
The one statement that you quote does not address what actually motivated people, Texans specifically, to secede. If you wish to determine the actual motivation of large numbers of people you are going to have to get off your backside and look into contemporary accounts; speeches, letters, diaries, etc.
Simplistic explanations for complex events are almost always wrong.
Further a distant observer can often have the best perspective to view events that have swept up other peoples in the passion of the hour. Further Charles Dickens was hardly alone in his support for the Confederate cause in Europe. He was further known to be an astute observer and commentator on human nature.
Go be a troll somewhere else.
The problem Haroldc is that all of the secession commissioners said the exact same thing...slavery was the cause of secession.
And, if Mr. Williamson had other motives, why not spell them out in his speech to Texas? It seems that if you want a state to join your little confederacy you would pull out the big guns so to speak and lay it all out for the world to see and that is what the commissioners did.
You said...
"If you wish to determine the actual motivation of large numbers of people you are going to have to get off your backside and look into contemporary accounts; speeches, letters, diaries, etc."
What do you think the quotes of Mr. Williamson are...primary sources...you know straight from the horses mouth.
Billy
I'm speaking of not cherry picking a few quotes and running with them. What the great majority of letters from ordinary soldiers and diaries from civilians state is that the South fought because she was invaded. North Carolina and the rest of the upper South did not secede until Lincoln called for troops to invade.
Further your statement that the South fought to defend slavery and the North fought to defend the Union is insane. If the South wished to preserve slavery it would have stayed in the Union. If it had stayed the Thirteenth Amendment as orginally proposed slavery would have been enshrined in the Constitution.
This discourse, such as it is, simply proves that we don't belong in the same country. We will not agree and further it is a waste of time.
Don't we all get so sick and tired of the
white apologists ...
I for one wish slavery was never instituted . I wish they would of left every miserable black soul in Africa to live out the life of luxury they were so accustomed to . Like eating one another and living in mud huts . THAT'S your proud heritage black man .
Why , just look at the accomplishments of the proud black race unhindered by the evil white man in Africa . Peace and civility permeates the land ... NOT !!
And this same savage attitude lurks barely beneath the skin surface here . It's only a veneer that quickly peels aside .
Look at South Africa , a 1st world nation given them on a platter . Laws sorely distorted to pamper and extol the black , while destroying the whites ... and they STILL can't get it right .
And you need not look that far - take a honest look at America . But , you ALWAYS have excuse after excuse . Nothing will ever be recompense enough in your mind .
Those with eyes to see understand your ultimate goals , and we say bring it on .
These debates with you have reached heights of ludicrisy .
Surveys ( of common sense ) have been taken at the national level , taking into account all the supposed sufferings of your past ancestors . This has been compared with the destruction and degradation of our people , nation and life as a whole ... and YOU come up way short .
The time of the soft shoe approach is over . We really don't give a sh%t what you think of our BATTLE flag ... and it aint coming down .
http://inseason-outofseason.blogspot.com/2008/03/another-untold-story.html
Does anyone know how to contact this courageous young man and lend him (at least) moral support?
Trial resulted in a mistrial.
No verdict.
Billy yank.....
You just keep drinking that lincoln cult kool-aid, buddy. I suppose you like the way ole father abe's chains rest upon you. We Southrons don't.
Regarding the War for Southern Independence, honest inquiry, adherence to principles, and sound logic lead to only one conclusion for those who value liberty - The South Was Right. In that vein, lincoln and the north were wrong on all counts.
One example:
The official line from lincoln and the remaining u.s. congress was that all those blue-clad asses were sent here to, 'preserve the union'. Hmmm.... preserving a union by FORCE. Putting it mildly, that is an insane crime against language. A union necessarily implies FREE CONSENT. And isn't that the bedrock American principle of FREE government? That is rests on the people's consent?
By way of analogy, lincoln's idea of a union is akin to your girlfriend's daddy holding a gun to your head, forcing you to marry her, and maintaining the arrangement by posting armed guards in your house to make sure you do what daddy likes. It is ludicrous to call that a 'union'. For the same reason, it is sophomoric to argue for maintaining a policical union by force. 'Unions' like that usually have the word, 'Soviet' in them somewhere. But then, Karl Marx admired and supported lincoln's war for that very reason. And a large number of Marx's former associates were high-ranking members of ole abe's army and administration. Perhaps that explains a lot of things.
You can prattle away all you want with your tired, lame, and indefensible justifications for northern invasion, conquest, and subjugation of the South. The only one here with a feeble enough mind to believe them is you.
My oldest son has that same shirt, "If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson." He wears it loud and proud.
For the record, I have no use for the OTHER flag... the flag of "those people." Yeah, that one, the one with subjugated stars and the bloody stripes of a tyrant's whip.
Even as a Confederate reenactor lookin' across the battlefield at the "scarred and mangled banner," I aim for and shoot at "the colors." Some of y'all know what I mean...
mark thomey,
Wow! Good haymaker.
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